Presidential poll: Jonathan told me why he needed to accept defeat – King Turner

The Obanema of Opume Kingdom, in Ogbia Local Government Area of Bayelsa State, His Royal High­ness, King Amalate Johnnie Turn­er, has opened up on his relationship with former President Goodluck Jonathan, saying the ex-president is not a weak man as widely believed.
Turner, former President Jonathan’s broth­er, friend and confidant who spoke with AIDOGHIE PAULINUS in Abuja, dwelt on the tenure of Jonathan, most importantly, the March, 28 presidential election, saying that Jonathan told him why he needed to ac­cept defeat.
His words “At least, he mentioned it to me. He told me why he needed to accept defeat. He called me. I was in Bayelsa and the rea­sons he gave, I wouldn’t want to make them public. But he did mention to me that he was doing so and gave me very convincing rea­sons.”
Turner also spoke on the role he played in the emergence of Henry Seriake Dickson as Governor of Bayelsa State, adding that for­mer President Jonathan is satisfied with the way Dickson has conducted himself in of­fice, even as he said the governor has also not disappointed him. He also said he had no regret over the role he played in the ouster of Timipre Sylva as Bayelsa State Governor, saying that right from day one, Sylva ought to have been removed because of his disdain for elders. Excerpts…
How has it been so far, combining royalty with politics?
For me, it’s not been so much of a prob­lem. I keep telling people that I am just a circumstantial politician. I have not been one of them.
What do you mean by circumstan­tial?
Circumstantial, in the sense that I am not a politician. I began to play the role of a poli­tician because of circumstances. Well, I was a core civil servant, retired after 32 years, voluntarily though. Of course, while still in service, my people decided to make me their traditional ruler. I couldn’t shy away from it because it is a position of leadership whether we like it or not. And when your people say they want you, it becomes a problem for you to deny them. They must have seen some­thing in you that makes them feel you should be their leader.
As I progressed along the line, I had Jon­athan as a friend who came in while I was still in service and it was so difficult for me, looking at the way our people were playing the politics. They were looking at him as a political neophyte who had nothing to offer, who doesn’t have experience and tried to pull him down. So, naturally, I had to also throw my weight behind him. Even though I wasn’t a politician, I threw my weight behind him and it has been difficult for me to pull out because I didn’t see the same people changed because they had all sorts of gimmicks just to get what they want. Of course, God decided to promote him from one level to the other until he became president. It was also in that situation, difficult for me to pull out and that forced me to combine my traditional role in our community to playing also the role of a politician. That was why I said it is purely circumstantial. And it has been a very inter­esting experience.
For me, back home, I lose nothing and my people also lose nothing because we have traditional structures that make it easy for me. Whether I am there or not, and especial­ly with advancement in information technol­ogy, things that go beyond the Community Development Committee, which goes be­yond the Chiefs’ Council, then they can refer to me. And you will realize that maybe out of 10, 15, 20 cases, what they will refer to me will not be more than three or four. And if I am not also free, I can constitute a committee that will look into it and report back and it becomes easy for me to take a decision. So, there had been no friction, we’ve never had any problem and things have been going on smoothly.
We had former President Jonathan for five years and a lot of Nigerians still don’t know what kind of person he is. As his brother, friend and confi­dant, what type of person is he?
For five years, if Nigerians didn’t know him, I would say it is unfortunate. They should have known his style. Everybody has his own character the way God created them.
There was a time people were say­ing he was a weak man, while oth­ers said people were taking him for granted because he is a humble and compassionate man. Is he really a weak man?
Jonathan couldn’t have been weak, other­wise, Nigerians wouldn’t have complained. You remember when Jonathan wanted to re­move fuel subsidy and he stood his ground and you know what Nigerians were talking about. Nigerians were then referring to him as an autocratic person and I was wondering, this is the same man that they said was weak and he suddenly became autocratic.
I didn’t see him as a weak person. It is just that he is a man who is extremely careful. He wouldn’t want to make mistakes in anything he is doing and most of the time, he wants to take his time, consult very widely before taking certain decisions. And you know Ni­gerians are impatient. In anything they are doing, they want results almost immediately. They don’t mind how you go about it, but do something. So, to such people, they look at him as a weak person because he doesn’t take decisions at the time they want those decisions taken.
If you compare other presidents, they all have their different characters. We cannot change them for who they are. I behave differently, Jonathan definitely behaves dif­ferently and another person would behave differently. You may not bother so much if the person is not occupying a position like that. The moment you come up, you become an issue and they begin to either compare or think this man is not presidential enough. Yet, when he becomes so presidential, they would complain that this man is too auto­cratic, he is too tough, he should have human face, why must he do this, why must he do that. That is nature.
Looking back, would you say you are fulfilled that Bayelsa state gave such figure to the nation?
We are very proud. We thank God for producing him. Anytime we look at him, we keep thanking God because he didn’t mess us up, he didn’t disgrace himself, and God also came in and made him come back hon­ourably. It is just the same problem of impa­tience. Nigerians are very impatient people. I am sure if they had allowed Jonathan to stay for another four years, we would have felt the impact of the Transformation Agenda more than it is now. Now, it has been swept under the carpet as if he did nothing, but I believe in the next few years, Nigerians will begin to see the difference.
Apart from being former President Jonathan’s brother, friend and confi­dant, you took a step forward by en­suring his election in 2011 and also played a significant role in the 2015 election. How would you describe the March 28 presidential election?
Those are things that are difficult to go into. The most important thing is that even­tually, Buhari won the election and the then Mr President, Jonathan, did not waste time to congratulate Buhari. There is no per­fect election. If you are able to achieve 80 percent of free and fair election or even if it is 60, 70 percent, it is ok. Democracy evolves over a period of time because even the developed countries, I don’t think they achieve 100 percent perfection. So, if he lost, how many Africans have been courageous enough to accept defeat? It happened! I used to have a friend, late Professor Eldred Green. He used to say that sometimes, even the ma­jority could be wrong. But it is the future that would be able to prove whether Nigerians were right in doing what they did in voting a sitting president out. Nigerians will get to know whether they were right or wrong in some years to come, not now.
Former President Jonathan said he never consulted anybody before con­ceding defeat. Do you feel bad that he did not consult you?
At least, he mentioned it to me. He told me why he needed to accept defeat.
Was that before he conceded?
Yes, before he conceded. He called me. I was in Bayelsa and the reasons he gave, I wouldn’t want to make them public. But he did mention to me that he was doing so and gave me very convincing reasons.
And you told him to go ahead?
Yes. I felt that was the right thing to do.
Now that he has left office, what role do you want him to play?
He is an elder statesman. And of course, as an elder statesman, you become an adviser. When you are retired, you are retired. You don’t need to be as active as the people who are in office. So, your role would be to ad­vice, using your own experience.
Are there plans to set up a founda­tion in his honour?
That is on ground. The plan is on ground, it is being developed and I am sure very soon, we will come up with the plans. I think there are things that have already been done.
How is his relationship with Gover­nor Henry Seriake Dickson?
There is nothing wrong with their relation­ship. Dickson is his political son and Dick­son has also remained loyal to Jonathan. And Jonathan is also very satisfied with the way Dickson is going about administering the state. So, I have not seen any problem be­tween the two of them.
I recall the role you played in Dick­son’s emergence as governor. Do you have any regret in the role you also played that led to the ouster of for­mer Governor Timipre Sylva?
I don’t have any regrets at all. I know that from day one, Sylva had disrespected Jona­than and I don’t think that was right. If I had my way, Sylva would have been removed from office from the beginning. You don’t disrespect people who are senior to you and yet, you expect respect from others. So, when the opportunity came, I had to play the role I played. I have no regret whatsoever and by the special grace of God, I think the present governor, Henry Dickson, has not also disap­pointed me.
Yes, the issue of people who feel that we’ve lost at the center, so it is better to also collapse at the state level has come in as a factor, but we are still strong on ground. We don’t expect and God will not allow the All Progressives Congress (APC) to win in Bayelsa state in the coming governorship election.
So, APC has no footing in the state?
They will never have footing, and of course, led by Sylva. It is not possible.
Are you confident that Dickson will be re-elected?
He should have, he should have and we are working towards his re-election.
Are the people with him?
Why would they not be with him? Do they have another leader? Until another leader emerges, for now, they are with him. They have to be with him.
There were rumours that he was planning to move over to the APC. Is that true?
That is not true. There is no way you won’t have opposition, even in your own family. One or two persons will always come to make noise, but until we have an election situation would you be sure that the person is not wanted. But mind you, from Jonathan’s election, you would know that sometimes, it is difficult to satisfy the people. I don’t see and Nigerians have not convinced me that Jonathan did anything particularly wrong. It is just a few individuals who felt that they are the owners of this country and maybe Jona­than was not giving them what they wanted and so, they had to conspire.
Do you see Jonathan becoming president again someday, maybe in 2019?
I don’t imagine that. He too will not imag­ine that at all. He is not an ambitious person and I don’t see Jonathan fighting to come back to become president in this country. He has learnt enough.
And he is satisfied?
He is satisfied with the lessons he has learnt from Nigerians and if I have my way to advice, this is what I will tell him: let him leave the rest for history to judge.
We learnt about the planned im­peachment of Dickson. Is that true?
I am not aware at all if there was any ru­mour like that. It is not to my knowledge. Of course, a lot of people have been doing so many things. Those who wanted the Peoples Democratic Party (PDP) tickets and did not get the tickets had to turn against Dickson. Some of them have even moved over to the APC and those who want to become gov­ernor, at anytime, you would have so many people still contesting with any person who is an incumbent. Such persons would also turn against him and make sure they run his government down so that they would have support. Of course, you know that negative stories are the things Nigerians want to hear. If somebody is bringing down someone, then that is the leader; that is the strongman that they would want to follow. Except situations like these which are quite normal and for a second tenure, even Obama did not find it easy. So, Dickson coming back for a second tenure cannot be as easy as when he came the first time.
How about the reconciliation com­mittee in which you are the vice chair­man?
We have started work. We are inviting them to appear before us two Mondays away.
Are they responding positively?
They will definitely respond positively, at least, the people that we know are within the PDP. Those who have gone over to the APC openly, we have left them to continue to stay in APC. But those who are still in PDP and are grumbling, we want to bring the entire PDP family together.
So, you are not confident of winning back those who defected to APC?
We don’t even want them back. For them to have taken that decision at a critical mo­ment like this means they are determined to remain there. So, we allow them to remain there and we wish them the best of luck.
There have been rumours about the imme­diate past First Lady, Dame Patience Jona­than, trying to install a governor in the state, trying to bring forward, a former presidential aide. Is it true?
I wouldn’t know whether it is true or not because the elections have not been conduct­ed for us to know how she would actually come out to support because if you are doing something discreetly, you can be suspected but you can’t be sure that that is exactly what is happening or what is on ground.
Is there friction between the gover­nor and the former First Lady?
Even at that, I am not too sure of friction. But it is normal that sometimes, even as a boss, the woman being Mr President’s wife, would one time or the other, especially when she gets to Bayelsa, and then, certain things she doesn’t like, she might be open to tell the governor that no, this is not right, it should have been like this. Such little, little frictions would be there, but I don’t think it is to the extent that we would say the President’s wife is sponsoring people to contest against Dickson. Those people that are showing in­terest are Bayelsans who may have looked at themselves and they feel that they can contest election against anybody. As for me, Dickson should not be afraid of them. As many peo­ple as possible, let them come, try their hands and when they fail, they will go back and reorganize themselves. After all, Buhari con­tested how many times? So, it doesn’t matter.
There is the Timi Alaibe and Alamiesiegha factor. We learnt that they are also interested in the race. How true is this?
Alamiesiegha has made himself known publicly that he can’t be interested. Alaibe has not made it public, but I know, I mean, we are a very small state.
There are rumours that he is even moving to the APC to contest. Is it true?
I am not sure. For the period I interacted with him, I can’t believe that Alaibe is con­testing for governorship.
But do you see both of them as strong opposition to Dickson?
As I said, Alamiesiegha made it very open, very clear. And there are times as Nigerians; we need to keep our respect. If you throw it to the dogs, you will do anything with it. I also don’t think that Alaibe would be interested. He could be interested in any other position at the national level, but not in the state at this time. A time may come when even me, I would be willing to say let him come because he has paid his dues.
What is the Bayelsa of your dream?
Bayelsa should be a state that any person who comes into Nigeria, should be thinking of getting to Bayelsa. It is just like when you get into South Africa, if you get to Joburg, people would say no, you have not seen any­thing here, go to Cape Town or Durban, then you will know you came to South Africa.
I would want a Bayelsa that when people come into Nigeria, they should be rushing to Bayelsa to see what that state looks like. That is a place that produced what has given us whatever name or status that we are enjoying now and I expect even the federal govern­ment to pay more attention to Bayelsa state.